Am I the only one who thought of this?

[Demi-fiend]

One sword it built more for raw strength, the other is more suited to speed and slashes

... Looks like I have no choice but take your word for it.

They both look like they're swinging and hitting equally hard at times, so I'm not really going to take your statement at face value.

No you wouldn't it is that simple.If you believe that basis then dante should never have been less skilled than vergil in swordsmanship due to vergil being so gifted with yamato

Dante looked pretty "skilled" with his other weapons right at the moment he got them. And Vergil looked like he was born to use gauntlets and greaves when he first ripped Beowulf's corpse apart with them.

Besides, who's to say that Dante and Vergil never trained with each other's perspective weapons? They could've trained for years with both for all you know.

Vergil almost certainly looked like he trained for a good long while considering his precise slashes with the Rebellion. He most likely trained with a broadsword as well.

I'm willing to bet that Dante trained with a tachi (longer version of the katana) for a while too, considering he was confident enough to hold it upside down almost the entire time.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

Ok man I appreciate your opinion so il just leave it there

 

[Demi-fiend]

Ok man I appreciate your opinion so il just leave it there

Alright. Thank you, then. I appreciate yours as well.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

... Looks like I have no choice but take your word for it.

They both look like they're swinging and hitting equally hard at times, so I'm not really going to take your statement at face value.

That's a longsword, not a broadsword, Rebellion and Force Edge are both bigger then that sword

 

[Foxtrot94]

Vergil used Force Edge only in the final battle cause of pride. His father wielded it before him, he wanted to prove himself worthy of it too.

 

[Demi-fiend]

That's a longsword, not a broadsword, Rebellion and Force Edge are both bigger then that sword

Your point? These aren't normal physics (or normal humans) we're talking about here.

Both swords move with the same ferocity and speed at [1:15].

-------------------------------------------

Vergil used Force Edge only in the final battle cause of pride. His father wielded it before him, he wanted to prove himself worthy of it too.

So, he was about to be defeated, and decided to let a little thing like pride change his swordfighting style that even though Dante brought him to his knees not five seconds before?

There would have been no point to "standing on ceremony" when you're already brought down in front of your enemy. Vergil had to either fight until the end of the duel or give up.

So, he gave up. Not very prideful or honorable. A real "honorable" samurai would've taken his life using seppuku.

Vergil ran. Into the demon world.

Then later tried to make up for it by (foolishly) challenging Mundus himself.

-------------------------------------------------

Besides, they never said that anywhere in official media.

All he said was he wanted the amulet. He wanted Sparda, and only settled for Force Edge because Dante wouldn't give him the amulet.

I don't think a little thing like pride would get in the way of that if he was that close to achieving his goal.

Sure, I believe you.

 

[Foxtrot94]

So, he was about to be defeated, and decided to let a little thing like pride change his swordfighting style that even though Dante brought him to his knees not five seconds before?

Ha! But that's the thing. Pride is not a little thing in Vergil's personality. Did he allow his stubborness and over-confidence to get over his head? Hell yeah he did. He was overly self-confident ("Am I... being defeated?"... he says it in a surprised tone too) and got screwed up for that.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Ha! But that's the thing. Pride is not a little thing in Vergil's personality. Did he allow his stubborness and over-confidence to get over his head? Hell yeah he did. He was overly self-confident ("Am I... being defeated?"... he says it in a surprised tone too) and got screwed up for that.

Like I said, if he was too proud to use Yamato at that moment, then he should've been too proud to run away and should've taken his own life. Whether through fighting with Dante or seppuku.

His pride didn't prevent him from running. He ran. Warrior Pride wouldn't allow that.

You can't have it both ways. Either Vergil is proud and wants to use Force Edge only, or he wasn't proud enough to truly die a permanent death in the heat of battle against Dante.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Like I said, if he was too proud to use Yamato at that moment, then he should've been too proud to run away and take his own life.

His pride didn't prevent him from running. He ran. Pride wouldn't allow that.

You can't have it both ways. Either Vergil is proud and wants to use Force Edge only, or he wasn't proud enough to die in the heat of battle against Dante.

He saw it another way. Falling in the Netherworld was not a running away (it wasn't even a suicide, since he survived... and most proud people see suicide preferable to defeat acknowledgement anyway, so...). It actually was his last act of pride. In fact, he refused to get saved by Dante (he stopped him while he was running to save him) and return with him to the human world, choosing instead to stay in his father's home, which he kinda recognized to be his place as it was his father's too. His father, the one he wanted to be like.

 

[Demi-fiend]

It actually was his last act of pride.

It was an act of shame. Vergil shamed his father's legacy by running away from a fight and joining evil -- joining the world that Sparda fought so hard to be free of.

He didn't accept Dante's help because he didn't want to have to owe Dante anything. Being beholden to your mortal enemy (which Vergil will always see Dante as) would be worse than anything else in human world.

So instead of fighting and dying in the duel against Dante (like a true and honestly proud warrior would have) he decided to run and shame the legacy of his father because he has no "true" pride.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

Your point? These aren't normal physics (or normal humans) we're talking about here.

My point is, usually, they are wielded with very different styles. Can you picture Vergil using the moveset he uses with Yamato, with Rebellion?

 

[Demi-fiend]

My point is, usually, they are wielded with very different styles. Can you picture Vergil using the same moveset with Rebellion?

He has rapid slashes with Yamato (in DMC4) now -- a move he didn't have previously in DMC3 -- and Sparda used rapid stabs with the Yamato in DMC1 (where he also used two hands to wield it).

Yeah, I can honestly see it because Sparda pulled off a few of Rebellion's moves with the Yamato as well.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

To be fair the moves he has in dmc4 aren't canon

 

[Demi-fiend]

To be fair the moves he has in dmc4 aren't canon

But that isn't "fair." Just by putting those moves in his repertoire is implying that Vergil will one day have them.

Vergil might even be one of the main storyline characters in DMC5, as well. Those moves can't just be for a cameo appearance. Too much work was put into them to not be "future-canon."

 

[AgentRedgrave]

He has rapid slashes with Yamato (in DMC4) now -- a move he didn't have previously in DMC3 -- and Sparda used rapid stabs with the Yamato in DMC1 (where he also used two hands to wield it).

Yeah, I can honestly see it because Sparda pulled off a few of Rebellion's moves with the Yamato as well.

Is whether it's wielded two handed or one handed the main point to you? In that case fine, either one can be used one or two handed

 

[Demi-fiend]

Is whether it's wielded two handed or one handed the main point to you? In that case fine, either one can be used one or two handed

Yes, and both very much have the ability to be used with the same amount of speed and force. That's all I'm saying.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

But that isn't fair. Just by putting those moves in his repertoire is implying that Vergil will one day have them.

He might even be one of the main storyline characters in DMC5, as well. Those moves can't just be for a cameo appearance. Too much work was put into it to not be future canon.

It was said that the new moves are from DmC and DMC3 aswell as a few new moves to make vergil different to DMC3 and that only the cutscenes were canon , that means that they aren't canon now and probably not for the future either as I doubt vergil is coming back into the story again.It not being fair is just life and capcom don't care

 

[Foxtrot94]

He didn't accept Dante's help because he didn't want to have to owe Dante anything. Being beholden to your mortal enemy (which Vergil will always see him as) would be worse than anything else in human world.

Exactly. You see? You got it. That's where pride comes in. Granted, he acknowledged Dante's victory, but utterly refused to be saved by him cause THAT would have been shameful for him.

When he decided to fall, maybe he did it out of shame, but he also did that because that was Sparda's place, and he felt to belong here as well because of it. His line speaks clear - "I'm staying. This place... was our father's home."

Also, he refused to surrender his amulet to him as well cause it's his, and only his ("No one can have this, Dante. It's mine."). Another act of pride.

But that isn't "fair." Just by putting those moves in his repertoire is implying that Vergil will one day have them.

Vergil might even be one of the main storyline characters in DMC5, as well. Those moves can't just be for a cameo appearance. Too much work was put into them to not be future canon.

Eh. Fair or not, that's the way it is regardless of what we think. Cutscenes canon, gameplay not canon. Not that I'm particularly sad, Vergil having Dante's moves... ughn, a lil cringeworthy. But I'm letting it slide since it's not canon.

If they are going to make Vergil playable in another game, they better develop animations more fitting his style.

 

[Demi-fiend]

@Foxtrot94

Um, being ashamed isn't the same as being proud.

Shame = running away like a coward.

Pride = fighting until your enemy permanently kills you. An honorable death.

Your letting your bias get in the way of your logic again.

--------------------------------------

Being beholden to Dante means that he'll have to stop his pursuit of power.

Can't have it both ways.

Either he's too proud to finish the duel, or he's a snake who slithers away when the challenge is too much for him.

---------------------------------------

Like I said, he brought no pride to his father's legacy by using Force Edge, he only brought shame to it by joining the demon world. Sparda hates evil demons as much as Dante does.

that means that they aren't canon now and probably not for the future either as I doubt vergil is coming back into the story again.

Really? So, both you and foxtrot know for a fact that Vergil will never use these moves again??

He has them, which means if he's resurrected (he's too popular not to be) then he'll most likely have at least some of them in DMC5.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Either he's too proud to finish the duel, or he's a snake who slithers away when the challenge is too much for him.

The duel was already finished. Dante won.

Besides, he already knew he was being defeated even before the two of them started the final showdown running at each other.

But regardless, he still wanted to have a last exchange with his brother and get it over with.

Really? So, both you and foxtrot know for a fact that Vergil will never use these moves again??

If he will, I'ma go and slap every Capcom employee in the face LOL

He has them, which means if he's resurrected (he's too popular not to be) then he'll most likely have at least some of them in DMC5.

Not necessarily.