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Was anyone else disappointed with how the story went for DMC5?

Morgan

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Okay then. Everyone's allowed to have their opinion, but I some of you were expecting Capcom to give you the Sun (you would have to kill Mika if you want it), the Moon, and the entire galaxy. Some of y'all had reasonable expectations, while others were set too high.
According to you, the guy that got disappointed that DMC5SE isn't delivered in a way adherent to your cost-vs-enjoyment model but exactly in line with what/how Capcom delivers SEs given the content and pricing models of previous SEs, people's expectations for story were set too high.

It's embarrassingly easy to dismiss everyone else's opinions on a product they're expected to pay money for and marking them as unreasonable just because they disagree with [insert low-standard corporate simping], but the emphasis is on embarrassing over easy, because we already know the application of it is brainless and can be done anywhere to anything.
 

BrawlMan

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According to you, the guy that got disappointed that DMC5SE isn't delivered in a way adherent to your cost-vs-enjoyment model but exactly in line with what/how Capcom delivers SEs given the content and pricing models of previous SEs, people's expectations for story were set too high.

Note how I said story, not gameplay content being withheld for extra money. I am not afraid to call out bullshit when I see it. I'm a guy that likes and prefers having the full package. That's why I love Platinum so much. They know how to do additional content without taking it away (They hate doing DLC and will try avoid if they can). I love DMC5, but that does not mean I am going to ignore shady business practices nor make excuses for cut content that was already in previous iterations. I know not all DLC is bad, but you've got many companies that don't do it right and go way overboard in to screw the consumer over cuz, "F#ck em!".
 

Morgan

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Note how I said story, not gameplay content being withheld for extra money. I am not afraid to call out bullshit when I see it. I'm a guy that likes and prefers having the full package. That's why I love Platinum so much. They know how to do additional content without taking it away (They hate doing DLC and will try avoid if they can). I love DMC5, but that does not mean I am going to ignore shady business practices nor make excuses for cut content that was already in previous iterations. I know not all DLC is bad, but you've got many companies that don't do it right and go way overboard in to screw the consumer over cuz, "F#ck em!".
And a full package doesn't include the story since when, exactly? There's a narrative to DMC that Capcom throws in bits and pieces of in the game itself and lure their customers to pay extra money to complete with supplementary materials because they've figured out that they can and that their fans will come up with an excuse to ignore that Capcom is essentially delivering an unfinished product. That's also shady. It was shady for SF5 and it's shady here.

Fans didn't invent the presence of the narrative to string them from mission to mission, or the attachment they have to the characters. Capcom did, then capitalized on it by advertising DMC5 as a return to form in everything including the characters and their development because they knew people were invested in seeing Classic Dante, Vergil, etc. If they didn't have any interest in exploiting the player investment in the storyline and focused only on the technical "game" side of the game, we would have just gotten DmC2 or a glorified Bloody Palace with a character roster and no story, with the Marvel vs Capcom-tier excuse of the characters and their movesets just being "functions", because according to that logic no one gives two sh#ts about who they play as or why, so long as the character looks good/familiar and plays well.

As it turns out, they keep including a story in these games. Someone is getting paid to write the stuff they fill cutscenes with. It's scripted, mocapped, voiced, and used to flex the game engine and how detailed the characters are when they stand around and talk. It's being put in the game in some shape or form and is thus paid for as part of the game's package, and as usual with a paid-for product, customers prefer that the product is complete and functional in every aspect that's included, not perfection in some areas while others are held together by spit and a string, which is why it's not wrong for people to call out that the story is disappointing or incomplete, because it is. One shouldn't have to keep up with an ongoing manga and cram a novel to get why something in a game is happening, and if Capcom can't make a story to a game that doesn't need out-of-game media or DLC to cover, they're well within their rights not to do that and make it simple enough to fit, or they can use their money to figure out how to get that whole story into the game without compromising either.
 
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BrawlMan

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And a full package doesn't include the story since when, exactly? There's a narrative to DMC that Capcom throws in bits and pieces of in the game itself and lure their customers to pay extra money to complete with supplementary materials because they've figured out that they can and that their fans will come up with an excuse to ignore that Capcom is essentially delivering an unfinished product. That's also shady. It was shady for SF5 and it's shady here.

Fans didn't invent the presence of the narrative to string them from mission to mission, or the attachment they have to the characters. Capcom did, then capitalized on it by advertising DMC5 as a return to form in everything including the characters and their development because they knew people were invested in seeing Classic Dante, Vergil, etc. If they didn't have any interest in exploiting the player investment in the storyline and focused only on the technical "game" side of the game, we would have just gotten DmC2 or a glorified Bloody Palace with a character roster and no story, with the Marvel vs Capcom-tier excuse of the characters and their movesets just being "functions", because according to that logic no one gives two sh#ts about who they play as or why, so long as the character looks good/familiar and plays well.

As it turns out, they keep including a story in these games. Someone is getting paid to write the stuff they fill cutscenes with. It's scripted, mocapped, voiced, and used to flex the game engine and how detailed the characters are when they stand around and talk. It's being put in the game in some shape or form and is thus paid for as part of the game's package, and as usual with a paid-for product, customers prefer that the product is complete and functional in every aspect that's included, not perfection in some areas while others are held together by spit and a string, which is why it's not wrong for people to call out that the story is disappointing or incomplete, because it is. One shouldn't have to keep up with an ongoing manga and cram a novel to get why something in a game is happening, and if Capcom can't make a story to a game that doesn't need out-of-game media or DLC to cover, they're well within their rights not to do that and make it simple enough to fit, or they can use their money to figure out how to get that whole story into the game without compromising either.

I believe you missed the entire point. My complaints are game play related in terms of cutting content. Not story content. I'm referring to bonus content. Bonus content that was in previous iterations that got cut out and sold and charged extra as DLC. On top of a game that's already 60 or $70 depending on which edition you got. That's why I was praising Platinum. They know how to deliver on bonus content and never feel the need to cut anything out just to charge some extra cash. All the other stuff you are ranting about like cross media story and tie-ins are not my main focus. You have problem with those I understand, but that is not what I was talking about.
 

BlackAngel

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You really need to chill out about criticism. Yes the DMC story is poorly told and sometime really confusing for no reason, just stating that "no one care" (which is wrong btw because people actually care about it) won't change that fact. What you propose is to completely ignore the flaws of the serie and focus only on the good parts, that's just a recipe for a slow death. Never trying to improve on the bad parts and focusing only on the good parts will only halt the serie growth.

I know the serie got one of the worst treatment over the years with different director between games and poor decision from Capcom. But it isn't a reason to just give up on the bad parts. Pointing out flaws of the game and how it affect the game with a rational approach isn't being a spoiled brat, it's just loving the game without being blind and wanting it to do better.
Thank you!!
 
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V's patron

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That is an entirely different beast altogether.
I disagree because most forums are about people arguing about what they love and hate. Most of the time it's gonna be people wishing they had something better than what they got.

So @Vergil95 can act like we are some wretched hive of villiany for not being grateful for what we have. I'd just say he'd be out of luck on any forum on the internet because no fandom really is grateful for what they have.

If he wants to be grateful for DMC5, then he should be doing appreciation threads or what if content like devilinside and Ronin.

I gotta ask why did you bother responding to this thread with a new post? It's not like @BlackAngel called you out.
 

Morgan

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I believe you missed the entire point. My complaints are game play related in terms of cutting content. Not story content. I'm referring to bonus content. Bonus content that was in previous iterations that got cut out and sold and charged extra as DLC. On top of a game that's already 60 or $70 depending on which edition you got. That's why I was praising Platinum. They know how to deliver on bonus content and never feel the need to cut anything out just to charge some extra cash. All the other stuff you are ranting about like cross media story and tie-ins are not my main focus. You have problem with those I understand, but that is not what I was talking about.
Dude, you're in a thread talking about disappointment in how the story went for DMC5. I'm keeping in topic with talking about the story. I brought up your issue with DMC5SE because what both things have in common are that they affect the Cost vs Enjoyment model of the particular person who played the game and what they expected out of it, and as I'm saying, people are well within their rights to accuse Capcom of "cutting base game content to sell later as DLC" for the story they chose to put in the game, not only game content that you can't prove was intended for base. People expect a complete story in a "simple" game such as DMC. DMC is niche compared to Resident Evil and Monster Hunter-- they literally do not sell as many copies of a DMC game as they do for even the worst RE game, and they run the risk of making the game more inaccessible than usual because the story content (which I would consider part of the base game, considering it's the thing holding the mission's together and promoting character investment) is left on the cutting room floor and sold back in an art book, a novel, a manga, etc, which doesn't have any functional difference to DLC except you can't play those things. Monster Hunter has a decent story you don't need to pay extra to understand and so does Resident Evil.... mostly.

If you're going to hold "story which should be in the base game" and "bonus content that has always been bonus content" as two different things and furthermore that you're somehow more justified in being upset about the bonus content (that shouldn't affect your enjoyment of the base game) than people are in their dissatisfaction with the story that is in the base game, I'm going to call that out as ridiculous because there has never been a base DMC game where you played as Vergil, had LDK Mode, had Turbo Mode, or all that.

Starting from DMC3 you had the base game with Dante and then paid 20 more dollars to play as Vergil, two extra cutscenes for him, three Jester boss fights, the missing difficulty mode (a difficulty adjustment in general), Turbo Mode, altered Yellow/Gold Orb revival mechanics, and they also managed to technically paywall Bloody Palace which was free in DMC2. Bloody Palace is the only thing that could be considered "cut from base" as we saw it in a base game prior.

DMC4 was so bare bones anything it got for the SE would make it look good but here goes-- you paid 25 extra bucks on top of whatever the original game cost almost a decade prior for costumes, playable Lady/Vergil/Trish, two extra cutscenes for Vergil and Lady/Trish, LDK mode, Turbo Mode, and... microtransactions. And it was digital download only. And they only charged 25 dollars for it because the original was already 8 years old or thereabouts and charging anything over 30 would catch them flak. Bloody Palace was an unlock or something, whatever.

And now we're at DMC5 SE. What's it got? Playable Vergil? Was never in a base game. LDK and Turbo Mode? Never in base. Ray tracing? That's new, safe to say it didn't exist in any base game. That's about it. And Bloody Palace was definitely a patch this time.

When it comes to extra characters and modes, none of these things existed in their respective base games and you can't prove that they were deliberately cut out of the original and sold back as DLC, except for maybe DMC3's difficulty issues between NA and JP versions, but it's the only game to have its SE come out in the same console generation and PS2s didn't have digital download functionality anyway so you'd have had to pay more for it regardless. PC players had to wait for the ports to actually play the games in 3 and 4 so they only paid once for a whole game unless they had a console and double dipped.

So it looks like you're trying to take Capcom to task because the bonus content this time around is less than the bonus content you got last time. I mean, it's bonus content. You don't actually need it. They can sell that nonsense however they want and what they have in 5SE is slightly more in line with 4SE minus Lady and Trish but adding "a little extra" given the next-gen leap, but the base game had V in it. I personally think it's dumb they're screwing PC players over but the modding community is strong and always has been from what I've seen. You still fed Capcom money by buying the base game and being satisfied with its existing content including the apparent practice of them having cut gameplay content to sell back to you later, so you can take that up with your conscience and the Lord, that's not anyone else's problem. We're here talking about the story, which still factors into people's Cost vs Enjoyment model for a $60 purchase.
 

BrawlMan

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Dude, you're in a thread talking about disappointment in how the story went for DMC5. I'm keeping in topic with talking about the story. I brought up your issue with DMC5SE because what both things have in common are that they affect the Cost vs Enjoyment model of the particular person who played the game and what they expected out of it, and as I'm saying, people are well within their rights to accuse Capcom of "cutting base game content to sell later as DLC" for the story they chose to put in the game, not only game content that you can't prove was intended for base. People expect a complete story in a "simple" game such as DMC. DMC is niche compared to Resident Evil and Monster Hunter-- they literally do not sell as many copies of a DMC game as they do for even the worst RE game, and they run the risk of making the game more inaccessible than usual because the story content (which I would consider part of the base game, considering it's the thing holding the mission's together and promoting character investment) is left on the cutting room floor and sold back in an art book, a novel, a manga, etc, which doesn't have any functional difference to DLC except you can't play those things. Monster Hunter has a decent story you don't need to pay extra to understand and so does Resident Evil.... mostly.

If you're going to hold "story which should be in the base game" and "bonus content that has always been bonus content" as two different things and furthermore that you're somehow more justified in being upset about the bonus content (that shouldn't affect your enjoyment of the base game) than people are in their dissatisfaction with the story that is in the base game, I'm going to call that out as ridiculous because there has never been a base DMC game where you played as Vergil, had LDK Mode, had Turbo Mode, or all that.

Starting from DMC3 you had the base game with Dante and then paid 20 more dollars to play as Vergil, two extra cutscenes for him, three Jester boss fights, the missing difficulty mode (a difficulty adjustment in general), Turbo Mode, altered Yellow/Gold Orb revival mechanics, and they also managed to technically paywall Bloody Palace which was free in DMC2. Bloody Palace is the only thing that could be considered "cut from base" as we saw it in a base game prior.

DMC4 was so bare bones anything it got for the SE would make it look good but here goes-- you paid 25 extra bucks on top of whatever the original game cost almost a decade prior for costumes, playable Lady/Vergil/Trish, two extra cutscenes for Vergil and Lady/Trish, LDK mode, Turbo Mode, and... microtransactions. And it was digital download only. And they only charged 25 dollars for it because the original was already 8 years old or thereabouts and charging anything over 30 would catch them flak. Bloody Palace was an unlock or something, whatever.

And now we're at DMC5 SE. What's it got? Playable Vergil? Was never in a base game. LDK and Turbo Mode? Never in base. Ray tracing? That's new, safe to say it didn't exist in any base game. That's about it. And Bloody Palace was definitely a patch this time.

When it comes to extra characters and modes, none of these things existed in their respective base games and you can't prove that they were deliberately cut out of the original and sold back as DLC, except for maybe DMC3's difficulty issues between NA and JP versions, but it's the only game to have its SE come out in the same console generation and PS2s didn't have digital download functionality anyway so you'd have had to pay more for it regardless. PC players had to wait for the ports to actually play the games in 3 and 4 so they only paid once for a whole game unless they had a console and double dipped.

So it looks like you're trying to take Capcom to task because the bonus content this time around is less than the bonus content you got last time. I mean, it's bonus content. You don't actually need it. They can sell that nonsense however they want and what they have in 5SE is slightly more in line with 4SE minus Lady and Trish but adding "a little extra" given the next-gen leap, but the base game had V in it. I personally think it's dumb they're screwing PC players over but the modding community is strong and always has been from what I've seen. You still fed Capcom money by buying the base game and being satisfied with its existing content including the apparent practice of them having cut gameplay content to sell back to you later, so you can take that up with your conscience and the Lord, that's not anyone else's problem. We're here talking about the story, which still factors into people's Cost vs Enjoyment model for a $60 purchase.

Luckily for me I never bought the vanilla version of DMC 3. Also, you were still getting the game at a budget price so that was fair. $20 ain't bad. In DMC 4SE's case, at least you got some bonuses. No physical version was brought to the West, but at least you got them. DmC I never bought until the DE version, but that game was already gimped to begin with, along with the DLC bullcrap. The fact that PC players got screwed twice over with that and 5 does a similar thing, proves my point. Once again, I enjoyed the story. I have no problem with people who didn't enjoy the story, even if they set their expectations way too high. I am satisfied with the game, but that does not mean I'm not going to call out the removal of features that have been standard by this point nor ignore it. That's all I have to say because this is getting redundant and going nowhere.
 
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BLACKSWIPE

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Yeah, I completely agree. Narratively it felt...short. Nero suddenly caring about a family he didn't even know he had, a lack of Kyrie, his guilt with Credo barely explored, etc. I played through 4 the other day and I have to say, for as narratively flawed as it was, it felt more confident in the story it wanted to tell. It honestly felt more like a varied journey. The game should have been longer and Vergil's "reveal" (if you can even call it that lol, everyone saw it coming) should have happened MUCH earlier in the story.

I still love the game but it's not entirely sure in what it wants to be as a story.
 

BlackAngel

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I'm pretty excited for the Adi shankar produced adaption of DMC for Netflix more than a potential DMC6



I liked Castlevania on Netflix and I'm a fan of Warren Ellis whose is a big presence in the American comic book scene.

I'm curious to see what his take on DMC could be.

With DMC6 I'm just bored with Bingo's take on the series.

He seems only good at themes of family/Dante vs vergil stories.

@meg5493
I didn't like Nero in 4 and 5 didn't change my mind.

That being said I get why he spared Vergil. He's projecting his own regret over Credo's death onto Dante and Vergil. Which is fine but i wish they did more with it.

The gamingbritshow on YouTube described the game's theme of not giving up on family but i don't think it earned that sentiment.

Maybe if Vergil was there from the start and actively trying to redeem himself it would have worked better. Even if he failed it would still feel earned.

V is too convincing as his own person to be Vergil. It would have been better if they just did Vergil from the get go or just have his human half look and act Vergil with a different hair color. There's even concept art with Vergil as a summoner.

I honestly never liked DMC's story post DMC1. I would have preferred if they spent more time with DMC3 Dante over what we got in 4/anime.

DMC5 has its problems but Dante is portrayed better than those two.
I agree.
 
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Devil Player

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I'm playing it and I'm not impressed. Way too much filler, the flashfoward / flashback thing gets old.

I'm in the minority, but so far, I think this is the worst DMC. Yes, I had fun even with DMC 2. In fact, I actually stopped playing DMC 5 and got to play DMC 2 ( DMC HD collection ) again. I got addicted to DMC 2 somehow. I can't believe that.

I'll try DMC 5 today again, later.
 

Devil Player

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Exactly! I'm playing DMC 2 only for Dante's journey. I'm still considering if I try Lucia's missions or not. I'm now going for S ranks.

My kids watched me playing DMC 5 earlier today. They got bored of seeing the insectoid enemies and asked me why would a devil hunter waste time killing insects...Then I played DMC 2 and they got excited when I was facing tanks and that giant building demon. I stopped when I got to the boss from LOTR ( sure, it's not from LOTR but it seems to be ).
 

Morgan

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Exactly! I'm playing DMC 2 only for Dante's journey. I'm still considering if I try Lucia's missions or not. I'm now going for S ranks.

My kids watched me playing DMC 5 earlier today. They got bored of seeing the insectoid enemies and asked me why would a devil hunter waste time killing insects...Then I played DMC 2 and they got excited when I was facing tanks and that giant building demon. I stopped when I got to the boss from LOTR ( sure, it's not from LOTR but it seems to be ).
Lucia was the original "new character with a simpler playstyle for newcomers" in the series, so go for her if you're a completionist or if you like nimble fighters.

Your kids are right. (y) This is DMC, where the devil hunter hunts devils, not redrawn common pests. It's like ever since DMC3 introduced "demons made out of sand", someone on the team figured it was their big break and then 4 invented "burlap bags filled with beetles" as a common enemy, and now there are bugs everywhere. DMC1 had Beelzebub but at least they were mid-to-late-game in the sewers. Good on those kids, hope they get excited for the 7-ft viking god and his pet wolves. (Gonna guess you're talking about Furiataurus with the LOTR ref?)
 

BrawlMan

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I'm playing it and I'm not impressed. Way too much filler, the flashfoward / flashback thing gets old.

I'm in the minority, but so far, I think this is the worst DMC. Yes, I had fun even with DMC 2. In fact, I actually stopped playing DMC 5 and got to play DMC 2 ( DMC HD collection ) again. I got addicted to DMC 2 somehow. I can't believe that.

I'll try DMC 5 today again, later.
Exactly! I'm playing DMC 2 only for Dante's journey. I'm still considering if I try Lucia's missions or not. I'm now going for S ranks.

My kids watched me playing DMC 5 earlier today. They got bored of seeing the insectoid enemies and asked me why would a devil hunter waste time killing insects...Then I played DMC 2 and they got excited when I was facing tanks and that giant building demon. I stopped when I got to the boss from LOTR ( sure, it's not from LOTR but it seems to be ).
You must be registered for see medias
 

Hungry Alien

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Damn, so there are actually people sharing my opinion about DMC 5. Most of the time, people just try to justify the story with anything when I point out V giving up on his plan about Nero and the Sparda 2 hours after planning it because reasons or Dante jumping at Vergil because he finished the cake. It's almost like he story is so confusing that everyone has different take on every part of it.
 

Devil Player

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I managed to S rank every DMC 2 Mission on Normal with Dante. Great experience. I forgot how much fun could be that game.

Tomorrow I'll be back to DMC 5, but I'm not excited. Like I said, DMC 5 completely failed to grab any kind of attention from me. Its plot is everywhere and the enemy design is very weak. I'm serious, what happened? DMC 3 was crazy fun and DMC 4 was quite ok on its own.
 

Morgan

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Damn, so there are actually people sharing my opinion about DMC 5. Most of the time, people just try to justify the story with anything when I point out V giving up on his plan about Nero and the Sparda 2 hours after planning it because reasons or Dante jumping at Vergil because he finished the cake. It's almost like he story is so confusing that everyone has different take on every part of it.
Given the comparison I can make to a game that came out four years ago whose plot didn't hold up, pretty sure the winning formula here for any developer-publisher is to tease the fandom with a drip feed of "content" and holding the game's future for ransom across a decade of no real news on it beyond interest-gauging exercises and marketing, a simultaneously stunted yet protracted development cycle, give or take shady practices on the part of the publisher, and then fans'll excuse anything when the game finally comes onto shelves just because "it's better than nothing", "it's about the experience," it's the first game they played that got them into the fandom, or "the story in the series was never that good".

But before I start going off about CDPR... :ROFL:

No, really, you're in good company here.