Another Look At Dante

[Railazel]

Well, since people are still persisting on comparing both past and present Dante, I would like to present my view on Dante in detail.

First off, I believe that Dante has rebooted on more than one occasion. I've said this before but I would like to explain myself more but, before that, I would like to present a fact that is overlooked by many of the fans (including myself until recently). I think, really, we already know this but just kind of ignored since it was never a focus in the games.

The major difference between this Dante and the past Dantes (plural for reasons I'll explain) is that the past Dantes were royalty. Yes, I said royalty. Obviously, not in their adult life, but you guys do remember that Sparda was king of the Human World until his death, which would make Vergil and Dante his heirs. I'm guessing they were kicked off of that ballot after Mundus' attack with Vergil being Mundus' brainwashed servant and Dante becoming a devil hunter.

If you think about it, Dante's personality and sense of fashion kind of makes sense once you regard him as a former prince.

Naturally, this is a direct contrast to DmC Dante who lived a much humbler life.

Now, onto my idea of a multiple reboots. The first one would be DMC 2 Dante who was rebooted into a darker character to make him "cooler." The second would be DMC 3 Dante who was rebooted to fit the new gameplay style they were going for (plus he was younger but his personality persisted into DMC 4). Of course, the third would be DmC Dante.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

When you say it like that, it does bring up an interesting thought.

I always thought the twins were royalty, but it seemed as though Vergil takes on that royalty title, while Dante is more the "rebellious prince" type. Plus there's the way both act. Dante acts like the cocky prince who simply enjoys messing around and being a bit of a street rat, but still hasn't lost his complete prince ways from how lavish and expensive his coat looks to him taking down to stronger demons as if he rules them. Then there's Vergil who takes his role seriously and simply focuses on gaining his father's throne and one day surpassing him to be the next king. Plus the way Vergil dresses and acts is that of royalty from the way his coat looks very wealthy to his mixture of high vocabulary and mature dark aura surrounding him.

New Dante and new Vergil are very different from this. I agree.

New Dante is more street punk and refuses to be anything related to Sparda's great King title. He wears the simplest of clothing and talks like a douchebag, but it's like an old saying; "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." SO Dante simply dresses as anyone else on the street would, in a way to hide his royalty. Like a diamond in the rock, proving you don't need high class robes, or a wealthy title, to do great things.

New Vergil meanwhile seems to take on their father's royalty but more so in the underground way. Kind of like a mafia. Vergil has decided to follow his father's rule of royalty, but instead is doing it in a way that will not only liberate the world but could also control it if he does this right. Vergil's part here is like that of a Mafia where Vergil is the next Mafioso head and therefore must continue where his father left off with the rival Mafia, Mundus.

Heh. Just when you think you know the twins, something new just automatically pops in.

Interesting topic, indeed.

 

[berto]

I dissagree (somewhat). Because the story is so undefined many things are subjective but here is my view.

Dante wears the outfits that he does as props, as he said in the novel, and while that isn't cannon alot of the reasoning can still apply. Dante is trying to present an image on to others, an image that invokes images onto his oponents. At one point in the novel Dante corners a would be assassin and his red coat flaping in the wind made him look like he was on fire.

Another image, not one that has ever been said outloud but one that I've always thought to be true, is that the man in red who doesn't stop comming, even if he is shot, stabbed, or blown away, can only be the devil comming for them, which, as we all know, isn't far off from the truth. Dante wears red because he wants to let his opponents to believe it the devil that's chasing them, whether they'd be humans or demons.

These are aspects that went behind the character of Dante in DMC1, but beyond that none of the ther Dantes (2-4) wore red because of those concepts, they wore red because the original Dante wore red.

So I don't really agree with the royalty angle (have you seen his office?) but I do agree, and have actually said so once or twice myself, that every DMC is a reboot of the previous title, even 3 and 4.

 

[Railazel]

(have you seen his office?)

Well, to explain, he's no longer a prince and there is, seemingly, no longer a connection between him and the government, so he has no source for money.

As for his clothes, the color definitiely is intimidating as Kamiya confirmed that to be his intention while designing Dante but, if I recall, he also wanted Dante to have a regal look to resemble the status he was brought up in.

New Dante and new Vergil are very different from this. I agree.

New Dante is more street punk and refuses to be anything related to Sparda's great King title. He wears the simplest of clothing and talks like a douchebag, but it's like an old saying; "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." SO Dante simply dresses as anyone else on the street would, in a way to hide his royalty. Like a diamond in the rock, proving you don't need high class robes, or a wealthy title, to do great things.

New Vergil meanwhile seems to take on their father's royalty but more so in the underground way. Kind of like a mafia. Vergil has decided to follow his father's rule of royalty, but instead is doing it in a way that will not only liberate the world but could also control it if he does this right. Vergil's part here is like that of a Mafia where Vergil is the next Mafioso head and therefore must continue where his father left off with the rival Mafia, Mundus.

I don't think Sparda was a king in the reboot. Seemingly, Mundus has always had control over the world and Sparda's rebellion wasn't as successful as it was in the original series.

So I don't believe that Dante and Vergil had any title to inherit but just lived average lives until they were seperated.

But on your other point about Dante's personality, Kamiya wanted Dante to be the "rebellious son," so your impression is actually pretty accurate.

 

[Razyel]

Wait what, a prince? I thought that Mundus was the emperor and Sparda was his leutenant :O

 

[Railazel]

Wait what, a prince? I thought that Mundus was the emperor and Sparda was his leutenant :O

After Sparda rebels and defeats Mundus, he reigns over the Human World for the rest of his life.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Wait what, a prince? I thought that Mundus was the emperor and Sparda was his leutenant :O

Apparently in the Reboot, Sparda and Mundus were brothers and Sparda ruled over the demon world. I think that's how it is, I don't 100% know.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

I don't think Sparda was a king in the reboot. Seemingly, Mundus has always had control over the world and Sparda's rebellion wasn't as successful as it was in the original series.

So I don't believe that Dante and Vergil had any title to inherit but just lived average lives until they were seperated.

But on your other point about Dante's personality, Kamiya wanted Dante to be the "rebellious son," so your impression is actually pretty accurate.

I thought as much. What with the whole "You're the son of Sparda" title, you'd think he'd be some kind of demon prince who fell from greatness after his father's death.

 

[Razyel]

After Sparda rebels and defeats Mundus, he reigns over the Human World for the rest of his life.

But that is only hinted in DMC4 I don't think that there is much solid proof for that, besides I thought that Sparda kept a low profile after saving humanity ?

 

[darkslayer13]

1.I don't think Sparda had any official authority over anywhere except Fortuna. The events shown in Devil May Cry focus on things that are different from real life but the human world itself seems to be basically the same as real life (except for places and events affected by the underworld) and most people don't seem to be aware of the existence of demons.
2. If Dante and Vergil were royalty then one or both of them would have more authority and influence now not less. When a king dies his heir becomes king. The only way he would lose that position would be if someone else took over.

 

[Sultan Abdulrazzaq]

When you say it like that, it does bring up an interesting thought.

I always thought the twins were royalty, but it seemed as though Vergil takes on that royalty title, while Dante is more the "rebellious prince" type. Plus there's the way both act. Dante acts like the cocky prince who simply enjoys messing around and being a bit of a street rat, but still hasn't lost his complete prince ways from how lavish and expensive his coat looks to him taking down to stronger demons as if he rules them. Then there's Vergil who takes his role seriously and simply focuses on gaining his father's throne and one day surpassing him to be the next king. Plus the way Vergil dresses and acts is that of royalty from the way his coat looks very wealthy to his mixture of high vocabulary and mature dark aura surrounding him.

New Dante and new Vergil are very different from this. I agree.

New Dante is more street punk and refuses to be anything related to Sparda's great King title. He wears the simplest of clothing and talks like a douchebag, but it's like an old saying; "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." SO Dante simply dresses as anyone else on the street would, in a way to hide his royalty. Like a diamond in the rock, proving you don't need high class robes, or a wealthy title, to do great things.

New Vergil meanwhile seems to take on their father's royalty but more so in the underground way. Kind of like a mafia. Vergil has decided to follow his father's rule of royalty, but instead is doing it in a way that will not only liberate the world but could also control it if he does this right. Vergil's part here is like that of a Mafia where Vergil is the next Mafioso head and therefore must continue where his father left off with the rival Mafia, Mundus.

Heh. Just when you think you know the twins, something new just automatically pops in.

Interesting topic, indeed.

like Thor and Loki basically

 

[DragonMaster2010]

1.I don't think Sparda had any official authority over anywhere except Fortuna. The events shown in Devil May Cry focus on things that are different from real life but the human world itself seems to be basically the same as real life (except for places and events affected by the underworld) and most people don't seem to be aware of the existence of demons.
Actually I think DMC takes place like around the 80's with the jukebox, the old telephone, the old diners, and have we actually even seen a cellphone in DMC?

2. If Dante and Vergil were royalty then one or both of them would have more authority and influence now not less. When a king dies his heir becomes king. The only way he would lose that position would be if someone else took over.

Well as said, Sparda's legacy was forgotten a long time ago and no one knows who that even is because he's pretty much been erased from a lot of society. His ruling as king over the human realm has been forgotten, thus Dante and Vergil not getting the royalty treatment.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

like Thor and Loki basically

Kind of. Thor still keeps true to the ways of the gods, while Loki betrayed the gods for power.

The difference is that Dante kind of didn't want to inherit the power of Sparda, while Vergil excepted it with whole heart.

 

[darkslayer13]

Well as said, Sparda's legacy was forgotten a long time ago and no one knows who that even is because he's pretty much been erased from a lot of society. His ruling as king over the human realm has been forgotten, thus Dante and Vergil not getting the royalty treatment.

1. Like real life in the 80's is still like real life.
2. There wasn't enough time in between Sparda's death and the start of the series for humanity to forget about a king who ruled for 2000 years. Dante was 18-19 in Devil may Cry so Sparda had to be alive until at least 19 years and 9 months before DMC3.

 

[berto]

1.I don't think Sparda had any official authority over anywhere except Fortuna.

Well, I don't think he actually ruled Fortuna, I think he went in, he saw, he kicked ass, and they all shat themselves and proclaimed him a diety (Maybe I'm wrong since I havent played DMC4 in a long time).


Also, don't forget, Sparda 'Quietly' ruled over the human world, as in no one really knew he was in charge.

I don't get the impression that Dante nor Vergil were ever really royalty. If Sparda was king of the world then he kept it to himself; his sons don't seem to have any interest in ruling the world, in fact, they seem more interested in the affairs of the demon world.

 

[darkslayer13]

Well, I don't think he actually ruled Fortuna, I think he went in, he saw, he kicked ass, and they all shat themselves and proclaimed him a diety (Maybe I'm wrong since I havent played DMC4 in a long time).


Also, don't forget, Sparda 'Quietly' ruled over the human world, as in no one really knew he was in charge.

I don't get the impression that Dante nor Vergil were ever really royalty. If Sparda was king of the world then he kept it to himself; his sons don't seem to have any interest in ruling the world, in fact, they seem more interested in the affairs of the demon world.

1.A diety is basically the highest form of authority figure someone could be and DMC4 also said that he was the "Feudal Lord" of Fortuna
2. You can't be in charge if no one knows that you are supposed to be in charge. People have to know that they have to obey you for you to be in charge. For Sparda ruling the world to be considered "quiet" he would have to do so without any titles or official authority. So he couldn't have been "King of the World" or anything like that.
3. Dante and Vergil not being royalty is what I have been saying this entire time.

 

[Railazel]

If Sparda was king of the world then he kept it to himself; his sons don't seem to have any interest in ruling the world, in fact, they seem more interested in the affairs of the demon world.

Dante became a devil hunter out of revenge. HIs father died before he was born, so I doubt he was inelligible to take the thrown. To make things worse, Mundus killed his mother and took his brother away, which probably forced him to go into hiding. So I doubt that he would have any interest in reclaiming his throne.

But that is only hinted in DMC4 I don't think that there is much solid proof for that, besides I thought that Sparda kept a low profile after saving humanity ?

1.I don't think Sparda had any official authority over anywhere except Fortuna.

Check DMC 1's opening. It explicitly states that he ruled over the Human World until his death.

The events shown in Devil May Cry focus on things that are different from real life but the human world itself seems to be basically the same as real life (except for places and events affected by the underworld) and most people don't seem to be aware of the existence of demons.

Actually, DMC 1's manual kind of hints that people are aware of the supernatural.

2. If Dante and Vergil were royalty then one or both of them would have more authority and influence now not less. When a king dies his heir becomes king. The only way he would lose that position would be if someone else took over.

That's actually not completely true. There were times where the throne would be given to the next eligible male if the son wasn't old enough to rule. Times where the son was automatically given authority showed that he doesn't have full authority and the power would be displaced to someone else. Dante and Vergil probably didn't worry much about their inheritance when they were young.

Also, Dante having little authority now makes sense. Mundus' attack obviously indicates that he was in danger of being killed so he was probably put into hiding with his title of prince stripped from him.

1.A diety is basically the highest form of authority figure someone could be and DMC4 also said that he was the "Feudal Lord" of Fortuna

This isn't really canonically correct since DMC 1 said that he was King of the Human World.

Also, don't forget, Sparda 'Quietly' ruled over the human world, as in no one really knew he was in charge.

Actually, "quietly" meant that it was peaceful.

 

[darkslayer13]

Dante became a devil hunter out of revenge. HIs father died before he was born, so I doubt he was inelligible to take the thrown. To make things worse, Mundus killed his mother and took his brother away, which probably forced him to go into hiding. So I doubt that he would have any interest in reclaiming his throne.




Check DMC 1's opening. It explicitly states that he ruled over the Human World until his death.



Actually, DMC 1's manual kind of hints that people are aware of the supernatural.



That's actually not completely true. There were times where the throne would be given to the next eligible male if the son wasn't old enough to rule. Times where the son was automatically given authority showed that he doesn't have full authority and the power would be displaced to someone else. Dante and Vergil probably didn't worry much about their inheritance when they were young.

Also, Dante having little authority now makes sense. Mundus' attack obviously indicates that he was in danger of being killed so he was probably put into hiding with his title of prince stripped from him.
This isn't really canonically correct since DMC 1 said that he was King of the Human World. Actually, "quietly" meant that it was peaceful.

1. Vergil was active in the human world until the end of Devil May Cry3. he had enough time to claim any royal title that he had the right to.
2. Being a devil hunter wouldn't prevent Dante from being a king if he had the right to be one and there is no one that would have the right to take that from him. His only known living relative is Nero who is significantly younger than him and is at most Sparda's grandson.
3. Even if Sparda was a king being a diety would still be a higher title and he would have still been the Feudal Lord of Fortuna.
4. A vauge statement in the opening of one game does not prove a very specific theory that does not fit the canon of the entire series.
5. If Sparda held the title of "King of the World" or anything even vaugly resembling it than there would have been some mention of it in game.
6. Some people being vaugly aware of the supernatural is not the same as the supernatural being part of everyone's normal life.

 

[berto]

Actually, "quietly" meant that it was peaceful.

If it was 'peacefuly' quiet and not 'no one knows' quiet then why is Sparda's a legend and not a fact?

 

[Railazel]

1. Vergil was active in the human world until the end of Devil May Cry3. he had enough time to claim any royal title that he had the right to.

No he wasn't. He was kidnapped by Mundus and held as his servant for thirty years. They changed his backstory in DMC 3, making DMC 3 Vergil a rebooted character but not part of DMC 1's canon.
2. Being a devil hunter wouldn't prevent Dante from being a king if he had the right to be one and there is no one that would have the right to take that from him. His only known living relative is Nero who is significantly younger than him and is at most Sparda's grandson.

That's if he can be king. There's no hint that the form of hiearchy Sparda left behind continued to exist after his death.

3. Even if Sparda was a king being a diety would still be a higher title and he would have still been the Feudal Lord of Fortuna.

Feudal Lords and Kings hold two different levels of authorities and thus are two different leves of rank. Plus, just because a bunch of crazy people decide to make a demon a deity doesn't hold much value to the actually amount of authority said demon had held during its lifetime.

4. A vauge statement in the opening of one game does not prove a very specific theory that does not fit the canon of the entire series.

It's not a vague statement. Sparda reigning over the Human World implies that he was its king. Thus, Dante and Vergil would naturally fall under the title of "princes." If he's not a king, then that would make the story in DMC 1 inaccurate by a large margin.

Furthermore, this isn't a theory, it's an observation. According to DMC 1, Sparda had some form of high authority over the Human World. This would only mean that Dante and Vergil would more than likely have inherited that same amount of power. Of course, DMC 1 had provided a good enough backstory for why Dante and Vergil aren't in that position, so we can easily fill in the blanks. This topic is just meant for what this observation could mean for the both old and new Dante. What I am happy about is that we are trying to piece together Sparda's story which I would like to do without disregarding any piece of his info told.

5. If Sparda held the title of "King of the World" or anything even vaugly resembling it than there would have been some mention of it in game.

It was up in the opening which is good enough since Sparda's story wasn't a large focus in the game.

6. Some people being vaugly aware of the supernatural is not the same as the supernatural being part of everyone's normal life.

They're not vaguely aware, they are fully aware. Otherwise, Dante would have no business.

If it was 'peacefuly' quiet and not 'no one knows' quiet then why is Sparda's a legend and not a fact?

Hmm... can't really say much on that. The story just says that he became a legend. I'm assuming that its one of those times where stories pop up shortly after a person's death.

On another note, I'm starting to get the sense that most of this really goes back to what Berto and I have said about the DMCs being reboots of DMC 1. If Capcom ever acknowledges this viewpoint, it could ultimately get rid of all of the series' inconsistencies.