"Arm Coding"

[Foxtrot94]

Eh, I wasn't able to find a better term for this. But basically I've heard some people speculate that the game might have a feature similar to DmC's color coding as in some enemies will only be affected by some cartridges' abilities and you will be able to switch them on the fly. For example that deflection Nero does against those bat looking things in the trailer might only work on those or something like that.

Now, I'm pretty positive those guys are reaching and that terrible mechanic won't make a comeback here in this game but in the imo extremely remote case that it does... How would you feel about it? Would the prospect of having to use a specific cartridge for specific enemies entice you?

I think it would be a massive fail. If it's true that Nero won't have additional Devil Arms once again, that would be another thing limiting his combo potential. It would actually destroy Nero's gameplay, which is why I just can't bring myself to believe Capcom would do it.

 

[Carlos]

Eh, I wasn't able to find a better term for this. But basically I've heard some people speculate that the game might have a feature similar to DmC's color coding as in some enemies will only be affected by some cartridges' abilities and you will be able to switch them on the fly. For example that deflection Nero does against those bat looking things in the trailer might only work on those or something like that.

Now, I'm pretty positive those guys are reaching and that terrible mechanic won't make a comeback here in this game but in the imo extremely remote case that it does... How would you feel about it? Would the prospect of having to use a specific cartridge for specific enemies entice you?

I think it would be a massive fail. If it's true that Nero won't have additional Devil Arms once again, that would be another thing limiting his combo potential. It would actually destroy Nero's gameplay, which is why I just can't bring myself to believe Capcom would do it.

If this is true, then we're getting the God of War gameplay feel, where each weapon corresponds to how enemies react to that weapon. For example, to kill ice enemies, you'd have to use the axe. To kill fire enemies, you'll have to use Kratos' trademark Blades of Chaos.

Also, if done right, this could also make the game a true "Metroidvania."

 

[Foxtrot94]

Also, if done right, this could also make the game a true "Metroidvania."

But this shouldn't be Metroidvania nor God of War. This is supposed to be Devil May Cry. A series featuring a free form fighting system where I have the freedom to use the weapon I want against the enemies I want.

That would just be a big limiting factor and would mean repeating the mistake DmC made and that the DE fixed (well, kinda but not really).

 

[Erian1Mortal]

Considering that these cartridges will be able to break I cannot see them using a system like that, as it would mean that the players can get stuck.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Considering that these cartridges will be able to break I cannot see them using a system like that, as it would mean that the players can get stuck.

Exactly that's another reason. Though one may argue with the fact that you apparently can find them in the levels but even then it sounds like such an unlikely scenario.

 

[Carlos]

But this shouldn't be Metroidvania nor God of War. This is supposed to be Devil May Cry. A series featuring a free form fighting system where I have the freedom to use the weapon I want against the enemies I want.

That would just be a big limiting factor and would mean repeating the mistake DmC made and that the DE fixed (well, kinda but not really).

Metroidvania as in Open World that opens dungeons with weapons or "arm coding" as this thread alludes to.

In my opinion, DMC3 was semi-open, but very much Metroidvania. You had to acquire [some] weapons [or items] to open certain locations, you even backtracked for this very reason. DMC2 was trying to be open world, but miserably fails.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Metroidvania as in Open World that opens dungeons with weapons or "arm coding" as this thread alludes to.

No wait, I'm referring to "arm coding" as a pure combat mechanic with no bearing on exploration or level progression.

 

[Carlos]

No wait, I'm referring to "arm coding" as a pure combat mechanic with no bearing on exploration or level progression.

Right, but as God of War (reboot) showed, that it can be done for both ideas. You wanted to access an area? You need the Leviathan axe to access the other side. You wanted to beat a particular ice enemy? You needed Leviathan axe. You wanted to break a door? You either needed Blade of Chaos, or a piece of icy stone that would burn into fire. You wanted to beat a fire enemy? Blades of Chaos. Color coding, dude.

Main staples of MetroidVania. It's what made Super Metroid the instant cult classic it is today. Same for Symphony of the Night.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Right, but as God of War (reboot) showed, that it can be done for both ideas.

I'd have nothing against that done for exploration. But this thread is specifically about combat, and that's an area where I don't want this feature to creep up again.

 

[Carlos]

I'd have nothing against that done for exploration. But this thread is specifically about combat, and that's an area where I don't want this feature to creep up again.

It's actually a good feature. Tell me you played God of War (reboot), and actually finish it? The combat system was awesome. I don't know why you are against the idea. It would be like Mega Man changing from Mega Buster to Metal Man to kill Air Man.

By the way, what you're describing has been in there since DMC3, and the reboot DmC.

 

[Foxtrot94]

I don't know why you are against the idea.

Thought I explained it already. It's just incredibly limiting. No I haven't played GOW but I did play DmC. It was pretty frustrating, not being able to use the red weapons against the blue enemies, or the blue weapons against the red enemies. Where is the combo potential and freedom DMC is known for which made the previous two games such combat masterpieces? The game was pretty much arbitrarily cutting my arsenal and moveset in half whenever I was facing a colored enemy. Color coding was quite possibly the worst sin the game committed as a Devil May Cry game and even its developers realized it, going ahead and fixing it (kinda but not really) in the DE.

 

[Carlos]

Thought I explained it already. It's just incredibly limiting. No I haven't played GOW but I did play DmC. It was pretty frustrating, not being able to use the red weapons against the blue enemies, or the blue weapons against the red enemies. Where is the combo potential DMC is known for? The game was pretty much arbitrarily cutting my arsenal in half whenever I was facing a colored enemy. Color coding was quite possibly the worst sin the game committed as a Devil May Cry game and even its developers realized it, going ahead and fixing it (kinda but not really) in the DE.

I see what you mean. Sometimes DmC did frustrate me, especially when you were fighting red enemies, and blue enemies at the same time. But I like the system because it teaches you to use different weapons. I think NT wanted more focus to other weapons, rather than the same weapon over and over again. I am guilty of that in DMC, and DMC3. DMC4 didn't really have different weapons from what I saw.

The best compromise is to make it extremely responsive. What bothered me about the system wasn't the color coding, it was more the delay. You had to wait as in "wait your turn" kind of thing. That is the only limitation I saw in DmC, once I get into the battle system deeper and deeper. DE fixed this somewhat, but it wasn't responsive enough, like Call of Duty responsive.

 

[Foxtrot94]

But I like the system because it teaches you to use different weapons.

There is a difference between teaching and forcing though. DMC is at its most fun and deepest level when you can unleash your whole moveset against your enemies. Paradoxically, having enemies only vulnerable to certain weapons inevitably forces you to use only those against them, and ignore the rest of your arsenal. That's exactly what happened in DmC and it was such a bad design decision. Other games can go ahead and do their thing but that is not Devil May Cry.

DMC4 didn't really have different weapons from what I saw.

True, Nero only had one gun and one sword. So imagine how repetitive and boring his gameplay would be if even his Devil Breaker was subjected to these arbitrary limitations this time around. The poor guy has been waiting for an extensive moveset for 10 years now.

 

[Erian1Mortal]

It's actually a good feature. Tell me you played God of War (reboot), and actually finish it? The combat system was awesome. I don't know why you are against the idea. It would be like Mega Man changing from Mega Buster to Metal Man to kill Air Man.

By the way, what you're describing has been in there since DMC3, and the reboot DmC.

I'd argue that the combat in God of War wasn't as good as it could have been (for various reasons) but that's for another topic or pm if you'd like.
The problem with such a mechanic is (in DmC and partly GoW) that you usually flinch when even so much as tickling an enemy with the wrong weapon, wich breaks the flow of combat like crazy.
That's pretty much the antithesis of what this series stands for since the 3rd entry and one thing I'd agree with anyone when it comes to the reboot.

In terms of using those arms and stuff for secret doors or just to increase replayability like in DmC, I'm all for that.

 

[Innsmouth]

Well if this is the case, that gonna be huge misstep on capcom's part. Color coding is lazy and annoying system, which has no place in quality HnS game.

 

[xMobilemux]

Given that it was such a major point of criticism in DmC that they had to change it in the Definitive Edition I doubt they'll make that mistake again.
DMC5's very existence is due to the DmC backlash so I think Capcom would be taking all the criticisms to heart.

I got about half way through GoW4 before I quit out of boredom so I never even made it to the Color coded enemies, though once I found out they were in it my opinion on the game got even lower so I don't know if I'll ever revisit the game.

 

[Erian1Mortal]

Given that it was such a major point of criticism in DmC that they had to change it in the Definitive Edition I doubt they'll make that mistake again.
DMC5's very existence is due to the DmC backlash so I think Capcom would be taking all the criticisms to heart.

I got about half way through GoW4 before I quit out of boredom so I never even made it to the Color coded enemies, though once I found out they were in it my opinion on the game got even lower so I don't know if I'll ever revisit the game.

Oh you've seen the color coded enemies if you've been halfway through (they appear even before you get your second weapon), you pretty much have to use the fists to avoid flinching, wich can be kinda annoying.

 

[Innsmouth]

Given that it was such a major point of criticism in DmC that they had to change it in the Definitive Edition I doubt they'll make that mistake again.
DMC5's very existence is due to the DmC backlash so I think Capcom would be taking all the criticisms to heart.

I got about half way through GoW4 before I quit out of boredom so I never even made it to the Color coded enemies, though once I found out they were in it my opinion on the game got even lower so I don't know if I'll ever revisit the game.

Honestly there is only one major fight with color coding in GoW4 (I'm almost at the end). Sadly it won't help, that overall combat in GoW is pretty shallow and boring

 

[Dante's Stalker]

Eh, I wasn't able to find a better term for this. But basically I've heard some people speculate that the game might have a feature similar to DmC's color coding as in some enemies will only be affected by some cartridges' abilities and you will be able to switch them on the fly. For example that deflection Nero does against those bat looking things in the trailer might only work on those or something like that.

Now, I'm pretty positive those guys are reaching and that terrible mechanic won't make a comeback here in this game but in the imo extremely remote case that it does... How would you feel about it? Would the prospect of having to use a specific cartridge for specific enemies entice you?

I think it would be a massive fail. If it's true that Nero won't have additional Devil Arms once again, that would be another thing limiting his combo potential. It would actually destroy Nero's gameplay, which is why I just can't bring myself to believe Capcom would do it.

Oh hell no, I really really really hope that's not the case. We don't need another game that spoon-feeds us in battle. Give us riddles to figure it out ourselves but don't colour code things for us. Not everyone is OCD, c'mon.

 

[DarkSlayerVergil]

Actually GoW (2018) you needed the blades for ice enemies really and even then the ice enemies could still be fought with hand to hand.

Right, but as God of War (reboot) showed, that it can be done for both ideas. You wanted to access an area? You need the Leviathan axe to access the other side. You wanted to beat a particular ice enemy? You needed Leviathan axe. You wanted to break a door? You either needed Blade of Chaos, or a piece of icy stone that would burn into fire. You wanted to beat a fire enemy? Blades of Chaos. Color coding, dude.

Main staples of MetroidVania. It's what made Super Metroid the instant cult classic it is today. Same for Symphony of the Night.

And GoW combat while fun as crap imho could use some more varied combos in terms of melee weapons. Like in Bayonetta combos can be a mix of punch and kick attacks do the same with GoW.