IncarnatedDemon
Well-known Member
can you explain what by MGR is bad for Raiden's character?
Just what the heck is so good about Metal Gear Rising?
- Thread starter GF9000000Returns
- Start date
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
Lionheart
Solid Ocelot
Yeah, that's understandable. Still, if I wanted to, I'd just ignore MGR. It's easy to do for me, since MGR does not subtract anything from the MGS games. It just tells of what Raiden did in the time after MGS4. It was first intended to be an interquel between MGS2 and MGS4, but since it all takes place after the main series pretty much ended (death of Solid Snake), why care about what happens in MGR?
If I didn't want to ignore MGR, well, the plot may be canon, but who says the characters' personalities and the stuff they say is? If all this is documented, maybe it is. Kind of hard to care, either way.
Fran0823
DmC and DMC why can't we have both?
He's always been an insecure man, sure. But the entire "Jack the Ripper" persona BS just came out of nowhere, in MGS4 he never once went total psycho despite being pushed to the limit...and in MGS2 he was a rookie spy so no psycho there
But at the end of MGS4 he had a family , in MGR that is barely mentioned in game. The ENTIRE point of Raiden in MGS4 was to come to terms with his past and regain his lost humanity, and he finally does exactly thar, when he's accepted by his son...and in MGR he pretty much claims that he's now a killing machine....¬¬
Platinum pretty much SUCK at stories, and they turned Raiden...a cool tragic character into yet another white-haired anime hunk with a big sword and some evil alter ego....
I do not HATE MGR....but I expected better
The original "Between MGS2 and MGS4 plot where Raiden has to come to terms with his new body" idea was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better, but shoehorning it after Snake's dead and the finale of his saga...just no
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
Fran0823
DmC and DMC why can't we have both?
c'mon man, look into your heart, you know it's the truth
EnJ
Shade
Logic?
Bad MGS game doesn't equal bad game. It's bad MGS game not because of bad plot or design or gameplay, it's bad MGS game because of it made not in MGS-style.
"You don't care they ruined Raiden's entire personality...but you DO care for Dante's?"
Yes, i dont care they ruined Raiden but i do care for Dante. Like MGS fans who don't care about Dante but care about Raiden. It's make sense?
Zey
I came here to laugh at you.
I just wanted to point out that MGR story is work of Etsu Tamari (Kojima Productions), Platinum Games just asked them to change the setting to post-MGS4 so they could have more freedom with the deveploment and it was made with the idea of being accesible to people that never played a Metal Gear game.
By the way, Raiden hair is not white and it was designed by Yoji Shinkawa (main designer of the series).
IncarnatedDemon
Well-known Member
Doesn't going after PMcs companies that abuse kids and turn them into a cyborg soldier say alot about Raiden's humanity?
And why are you bashing PG for? MGR Project (after PG came on board):
LEAD WRITER:
Etsu Tamari(KP)
LEAD CUTSCENE DIRECTOR:
Masaya Kubayashi (KP)
In other words, Platinum Games did not have a primary role for the story of MGR.
I understand MGR story was lacking, i reallly do. But was the story bad? In my opinion, no.
I did not feel that Raiden was killing people for sake of his own enjoyment. He did it to protect kids.
When Raiden realized that Nanomachines were supressing the soldiers fear...he stopped attacking them.
I suppose your critque of Raiden going psycho is fair and probably valid, but is that really that big of a issue?
Lionheart
Solid Ocelot
It was also explained (in MGR) in a very lengthy fashion that Raiden's past is, in the end, not something he can simply come to terms with. He can't regain his lost humanity, because he never really lost it. Courtney tells him he's still Jack to him, not Jack the Ripper. I think he just sees it as part of him now. At the end of MGR, he even indulges in killing, because it's part of who he is, and he likes it, apparently. The game does away with typical right vs wrong stuff, and I can't wait to see what Raiden is going to do next; whether he will change even more. Still, I can see that MGS4 would seem invalidated by all that. If so, just ignore MGR - see it as a kid going ''and he lived happily ever after''. It doesn't subtract from MGS, it's not part of that series, etc etc we all get it by now.
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
Actually Platinum Games didn't write MGR it was Etsu....something something and other workers from Kojima Productions.
Kojima only hired PG for gameplay.
The story, art, and enemy/character designs were done by Kojima Productions although PG had their fair share of creative inputs (they were the ones who suggested a sequel to MGS4 rather than a prequel, the original plan, for more creative freedom as well as came up for the idea of Sam and his design).
In defense of Etsu writing and Raiden's character events from Raiden's past were brought up in MGR such as being used as a child soldier and his past life as "Jack the Ripper". Raiden before the events of MGS2 took severe counseling to get over his past after the Liberian war and was able to adapt in society as Jack/Raiden. Nothing happened in MGS2 or MGS4 that had Raiden recall of his traumatic past.
Those innocent kids being used as child soldiers and having their eyes and brains being harvested to be used in cyborg soldiers, the same cyborg soldiers that Raiden has been cutting down for sometime now. So not only could he relate to those kids since he was in their position but the poor kids were being forced and used for evil purposes by an organization he bears a grudge against and were sent to their deaths to his (Raiden) very hands. Coupled with his dying anger towards Desperado that was still growing and more memories of his former life coming back to him, a life and memories he wanted to forget, and lets not forget being pushed to his limit and the stress of it all created a mental pressure far greater than anything Raiden ever experienced in MGS2 or MGS4 making him recall his former life as a child soldier and adopt the persona "Jack the Ripper" he once abandoned and wanted to forget.
My only gripe with Raiden's character arc was that after he defeated Armstrong and Desperado he didn't return home to his family or at least think of his family and how they will feel about him going back into action.
IncarnatedDemon
Well-known Member
can i just please point out a scene where Raiden talks to Kev ? This scene is after Raiden goes "Jack is back!!" i.e going psycho.
1:03:34 begin watching videofrom here to 1:04:12
"I don't want this...for anyone else." *while holding his abdominal area*
How did Raiden lose his humanity? I feel that he accepts what he has become.
Sometimes...when you do something alot...it becomes your nature.
Something you cant do anything about. Even if you try to fight, it is still in your subconsicious, always there, telling you "You are this".
1:03:34 begin watching videofrom here to 1:04:12
"I don't want this...for anyone else." *while holding his abdominal area*
How did Raiden lose his humanity? I feel that he accepts what he has become.
Sometimes...when you do something alot...it becomes your nature.
Something you cant do anything about. Even if you try to fight, it is still in your subconsicious, always there, telling you "You are this".
Fran0823
DmC and DMC why can't we have both?
The entire "Jack the ripper" persona was nonexistent in the past games(And he recalls his experiences as a child soldier a LOT in MGS2)...He had more...real problems in MGS4 and I asure you, pyscho side was not one of them
IncarnatedDemon
Well-known Member
IncarnatedDemon
Well-known Member
Tell me when Snake told Raiden "I am fighting for a future", isn't that what Raiden is doing at ending of MGR?
Did you see what Sundowner said "We have offices all over the world" refering to brains of kids being harvested.
Raiden found a cause that he is willing to fight for.
I get it you think "What about his family? What about MGS4 ending?!".
Tell me, as someone who can closely relate to whats happening to kids during MGR or as a father,
isn't it ethically wrong for Raiden to turn his back on whats happening to kids?
Should Raiden go "I did my job here, i dont have any responsibility for remaining kids. Time to go back to my family"?
He made his choice and it doesn't involve forgetting about his son or wife, it just involves being away from them to ensure innocent kids like his own son are not turned into cyborg killing machines.
Did you see what Sundowner said "We have offices all over the world" refering to brains of kids being harvested.
Raiden found a cause that he is willing to fight for.
I get it you think "What about his family? What about MGS4 ending?!".
Tell me, as someone who can closely relate to whats happening to kids during MGR or as a father,
isn't it ethically wrong for Raiden to turn his back on whats happening to kids?
Should Raiden go "I did my job here, i dont have any responsibility for remaining kids. Time to go back to my family"?
He made his choice and it doesn't involve forgetting about his son or wife, it just involves being away from them to ensure innocent kids like his own son are not turned into cyborg killing machines.
Shin Muramasa
Metallic Stranger
It didn't help that he had early cybernetics and still looked like a freak to many people even with his humanish body at the end of Metal Gear Solid 4. You could definitely see the lines where his body was put together and they do not look like normal scarring or grafting. They were too perfect as lines could get.